Dancer to Dancer with Zaina Hart
as interviewed by Oberon
Valuable elements we learn from interviewing the icons of our dance, are principles we learn almost by osmosis. If you find yourself feeling that you just can’t “have it all, this leggy brunette with a driving passion for life and a legendary sense of justice will most certainly provide an alternative insight. Single mother, with more than a full time job – she is an elegant performer with a dramatic stage presence, a ground-breaking teacher – a producer of Middle Eastern Dance events most notably a prestigious competition – Rakkasah teacher and editor of the most cutting edge magazine about our Art.
Reluctant to share her journey in this her own forum (best friends can call in some favors), at a time when the Phoenix is about to experience yet another exciting re-birth ,visit and be stirred, by the tireless world of Zaina Hart.
O. Why and when were you attracted to Middle Eastern Dance?
Z. I was 17 when I first experienced this dance. It was on the occasion of a family function at a place called, “The Seventh Veil” in Phoenix, Arizona. Even then I knew I was seeing a universal dance that transcended age and appearance – the movement so beautiful I felt there would always be a place for every-BODY in this genre.
O. Did you begin to study right away?
Z. Oh Lord no! I was much too shy! It was years later at the Arizona State Fair that I was drawn to a little girl, her Mother and Grand-mother all performing together. The music drew me over and the dancers grabbed my heart. One of the dancers at that performance had muscular dystrophy and although her dance was not gracefully perfect, it just drove home to me once again – here is a universal dance and there is something about the movement that promotes physical and mental health. Try to think of what it took for her to be out there – and the impact on her audience that day, was NOT - “Oh how sad for her!” – really – it was “Oh how wonderful!”
I was personally told in high school to QUIT trying out for dance team – I was told I was too long and gangly, and as graceful as an OX. Imagine the shy girl who hid from the popular cheerleaders going to my 10 year reunion and dancing in front of everyone.
O. Were they judiciously surprised?
Z. SHOCKED! Was this really me or an evil twin? I made sure I focused directly to the person who had assured me that I was not a dancer. She had stopped dancing, but I had found my place.
O. So let’s go back to your beginnings.
Z. After my oldest child Brandey was born, I was stuck in Puyallup, Washington – with a husband who controlled every move I made – even to the point of refusing to allow me to fix my car, limiting my ability to do anything outside the home.
Somehow, I managed to attend a class at Dianne Edrington’s studio in Tacoma. I had saved up leftover grocery money to take the class and buy some finger cymbals, a record and a book on how to make a costume. I learned six moves at that first class and spent the next year, by myself, learning to perfect these moves. Of course I didn’t have a clue what I was doing – couldn’t even combine the moves.
Then when Brandey turned 8 months she wound up with pneumonia. Tired of being without real support or help, and terrified as a new Mother – I waited until she was well enough to travel, packed a bag and headed home to Phoenix and family.
O. Leaving your husband?
Z. Leaving everything but my daughter. He never allowed me to visit my family while we were in Puyallup, even when they lived close by in Vancouver. It’s so embarrassing to hear myself say it, to show my weak points, but these are the things that shaped who I am today.
My husband actually followed me back to Phoenix. I began to take dance lessons even though he refused to “baby-sit the kid” – his daughter – so my mother helped out. Sometimes I would take Brandey with me, she was such a good girl and seemed to enjoy the music.
My teacher was “Sahara” who had studied with “Nefertiti”. Sahara taught a zill pattern that made no sense to me what-so-ever, (a double right gallop). Not a lesson in rythm. She taught a “restaurant cabaret style”, with a lot of “up – hip” movement. The idea was to wiggle whatever you could wiggle. (I mean no disrespect to her at all – if not for her and her loving support I wouldn’t be dancing today – this was just her style).
My point being, that I really wanted to learn, but was struggling with movement that did not seem “body-friendly”. But she and her hubby would watch me dance and as much as I hated it, it did get me out of my shy shell.
O. How were you able to move forward?
Z. I finally went to class with one of her teachers, Nefertiti with whom I studied for a while. I also attended some workshops with instructors Nefertiti’s teacher, Jodette had brought in to Phoenix (Horacio Cifuentes was one of them). Jodette states that she is my “Grand-mother dancer”. Her style being the first, true origin of my movement.
O. How long did you study with Nefertiti?
Z. I think about four years off and on.
O. Were you performing at this time?
Z. I danced at a few small restaurants at first. Nefertiti had a weekly gig for us for a short time at the Phoenix Playboy Club. I didn’t really start dancing in clubs until after my son Talon was born. In fact in 1985, I was at a Marliza Pon’s convention in Las Vegas, Nevada. Dahlia and Delilah were both there and both “blew me away”. Intimidating!
I was at the convention with another dancer who I felt was a friend. We went out to “party” and unbeknownst to me, somebody slipped a date rape drug in my drink. Next thing I knew, I couldn’t stand up - - - and she - - - left me there. I remember struggling to my feet and falling, asking to be put in a cab and realizing she took off with my purse, and there I was, not having the money to pay for it. I ended up with this stranger in his apartment and I can still remember every scary moment of it. (Coincidentally – she is no longer dancing and I am still here – funny how fate deals with us).
The next day was a hafla at the convention. I was spending most of the day in hiding while she was insisting we go – the last thing I wanted to do. I really felt all this had happened to me because I was there as a dancer. My mind was just not dealing with it rationally - - not that one can be very rational after being violated that way. So, I gave in, and went with her and sat in a booth trying to be invisible and small. Harry Saroyan began to sing, and of all the tables in the room, he singled out ours. He stretched his hand out to me and beckoned that I get up and dance. What made him do this I’ll never know, but the audience stood up and began to clap and I truly feel – if not for him and them I would not be dancing today. They had gotten me back out there, immediately, with a room full of loving people.
O. So what was your first positive performing gig?
Z. I booked my own at the Arizona State Fair. Even my kids were involved, so in a funny way it even was the start of my promotion of the dance – back to the fair.
I was also dancing in a club in Phoenix and at the same time started a woman’s support group. Anyone who needed help could come. I even looked after a woman with spinal meningitis. My mother was panicked – I mean basically I had started a shelter but somehow giving back to my community helped the healing process and made me feel whole.
O. Were you teaching or continuing to study at this time?
Z. I was studying performance videos of Sohair Zaki and Nagwa Fouad. At that point I was starving for knowledge and movement. I wore out the tapes. Sohair’s “tick-tock”, (downward hip), started my love for the Egyptian style of this dance. Seeing these sophisticated, classy women truly influenced the development of my style. History of the dance was not being taught at that time. Everyone was busy pumping out more dancers. There were also workshops to attend locally and a few that I went to in Los Angeles.
O. Did you have an actual teacher at this juncture?
Z. No, but Kathryn Ferguson taught a workshop in this odd little back room studio in Phoenix. She taught what she called “Tahitian down hips”. I was blown away - totally thrilled. From this I developed my own shimmy – one that I could do all day without hurting my body. It changed my dance.
O. Where was your first ME club experience?
Z. In Phoenix, at a club called Baghdad. I thought I was there to compete in an amateur night – gosh I was young. When I walked in, I got the job. Johnny Blue on volcals and an American drum set, and occasionally someone tried the hand drum. Gabby would sit in once in a while and it was he who stirred my heart into believing there was so much more. I bought zills from Harry Saroyan and music from Acme Distributing, without even knowing what I was getting. There was a secondary band that played there occasionally – very rough music. They didn’t have a band name, so the owner started calling them “Two guys from Jerusalem”. You could dance to either Chocolata or Badewis – they were the only songs they knew, besides playing a taxsim somewhere in the middle.
O. What is your strongest memory from that period?
Z. Well – Nefertiti had chosen my dance name. She felt it should coincide with your real name and so she picked Tahara. Johnny introduced me one night and everyone laughed. I’m checking myself to see I have no toilet paper stuck to my foot, nothing out of place, etc. I didn’t – but no-one wanted to explain all the laughter when I was announced. Finally, the owner of the club thought it funny enough to enlighten me – in a painfully long explanation - gesturing down at the floor while talking about “the poop place”. The owner confirmed, that “yes”, said in a certain way – my name did indeed mean “poop place”. A Lebanese friend, David – with the help of his Mother and Grand-mother – felt Zaina to be an absolutely safe replacement name. It means, his Grandmother explained, – “first shiny thing you see when you walk into a room, an emerald”. I promptly whispered – “Sometimes the toilet seat is pretty shiny”. He laughed – “You are such an American”!
I actually danced at Baghdad approximately 2 ½ years, until the owner and I had an argument about $3.00 wherein he picked me up, and threw me over a table in the dressing room. I think that qualifies as a hostile work environment – needless to say, I left.
O. Where did you perform after you left?
Z. I danced at a Mexican / Chinese food restaurant and other small gigs for excellent pay in that day. Then in 1988, I moved to Vancouver, WA because my family relocated to Vancouver. I brought my costumes, clothes, babies and no furniture. A few months before, in order to lure me back – my sister sent me information about the Pacific N.W. Belly Dance Competition in Vancouver. I traveled there to compete and entered the competition at the door on the actual day of the event. I approached the promoter of the competition carrying my 10 pound cape with arm holes and asked her to suggest a category. I was thinking I belonged in “props” but then again I was dancing professionally. There were no category descriptions anywhere on the table.
Her question to me was, “Are you a professional dancer”? I was dancing in a restaurant and teaching, so I said yes. I explained the weight of the cape and removing it prohibited playing zills. She said that zills were not a problem.
I competed – positions were announced – I was fifth out of 5! I left, quite humbled and extremely embarrassed. The judges seemed perplexed (as I overheard some of the conversations), but they had been told not to talk with the dancers and I found out later assumed I had made a choice to compete in that category without playing my zills.
I admit –I was feeling so badly and in my embarrassment was put over the top by one of the contestants back stage making comments about other dancers who saw her come in and were supposedly saying things like, “Why did I even bother to compete if you’re here”? I suppose that just added insult to injury giving the perception she was going to win (she didn’t) and quite childishly, I dropped my bra and stood my ground for some moments. Ahahaaa!
Once I received my video and score sheets – I could see that each sheet reflected “0” out of a possible “10” for zills. Ten judges – I had lost a possible 100 points! Judges comments proved definitively – “We loved you, but no zills Why didn’t you play zills”? Learned my first tough lesson about competing.
O. So did you compete again when you moved to Portland?
Z. When I did make the move to Vancouver, I called that same promoter and asked about local dance opportunities. She did take me to a restaurant that had dancers and I began to dance at the various clubs in the Portland area i.e. Yazmeen, Market Plaza and Amor al Khayyam. This continued for over six months until a traumatic incident with a known musician and some other risky events convinced me to stop dancing publicly because I couldn’t chance the safety of myself or my children.
O. I know this was not a stopping point for you – what happened?
Z. At this point my life became tremendously stressful! I came to the PNW with great credentials but could not get a job. Even my car was re-possessed – really – I just wanted to go home! However, I would have gone home to nothing – so – I stuck it out! It was in this time frame that I met Halima and Nadivah. Halima became my dance coach and I began dancing with the troupe – Chandi. The Clark County Fair here had given up on Belly Dancers because of bad costuming mostly (not family friendly). I became friends with a contact and really pushed hard to have the troupe dance there. In August – we did! Nadivah and Halima had a vending business and a few years later they were also vending at the fair. Later, Saqra joined the troupe as well. Also, during this time, Halima was helping me strengthen technique by coaching my hip articulation and shimmy overlays. I was in fact always nervous dancing in front of Halima, so I would over compensate by showing only the new movement and technique. One day she was sitting on the steps watching me – she turned off the music – walked over – thumped me on my melon and said, “HELLO, where did Zaina go”? She was always there to push me to my furthest reach – and she still does!
O. So would you credit Halima with helping to develop your style?
Z. Definitely, and an injury that taught me a different way to move. I was at the gym (some 20 years ago) pushing weights – a fireman was flirting and kept adding more weight to see how much I could push – next day I couldn’t walk. I had badly injured my knee. It was around this injury that I developed my style of grace and balance designed by where the body should and should not move. With that knowledge I am more equipped to protect dancers so that they can perform longer.
Moves I learn from others often seem incomplete for me, so I change it to accommodate my body using the mechanics of movement.
O. How long were you with Chandi?
Z. Five years or so – I liked the camaraderie of troupe – structured, yet family.
O. Why did it end?
Z. My personal life was such that I felt I couldn’t give my fellow troupe members the time they deserved. I was a working single mother - - - and truthfully, I had other artistic ideas and I wanted to explore them. I am big on not letting my dance partners down and raising a boy in his teenage years without a father was challenging, to say the least.
O. So – did other artistic ideas include the Double Crown competition and as having been on both sides of competitions what are your observations?
Z. Yes. I feel competition can be a useful tool to push you to the next level. I also feel competition can be detrimental when someone has a fragile ego and having been praised repeatedly, told they are the best etc. – they then step on the stage to be judged by their peers – are missing a piece – loose and behave badly!
I think you should choose your competitions carefully. Don’t compete where you can’t get your scores and judges comments and see who made those comments. Know your criteria. Work for “X” amount of months so that you leave nothing to chance. Placing or winning is a bonus – realize that the REAL win, is the work you did to get there.
The competitions I most remember are the ones where I didn’t place or placed 2nd or 3rd. The information as to why is invaluable. Competitors have paid $40.00 or more to compete and should walk away with some very personal revelations.
I admit I also have issues with respectful honors being handed out by competition producers. I have walked away from a Master’s Category with Kleenex and a box of safety pins! Nothing to show what I had achieved. So again, in answer to your question, yes, I thought I could do better and one day I boldly said so – in front of Jaleh, Nadivah, and Halima - to which Halima gave me “the look” and then the comment of “well Ms. Z – put your money where your mouth is”! (giggles)
O. Do you have fond memories of the first year of the Double Crown?
Z. Heck yes! The first year we had Tonya and Atlantis teaching the workshops and performing. They are amazing. When I gave them their workshop check, they tore it up - simply wouldn’t take pay! They told me to “remember it and help someone else out in the future”.
O. What is the best part of owning your own competition?
Z. I truly believe that we are giving the competitors one of the best competition experiences available. Being a competitor first, I know who I respect in the judging seat and why. I don’t want people walking away thinking they performed in front of unqualified judges. I feel because I participate in our community in a well rounded fashion I can provide the best opportunity for people to shine.
O. And the worst part of the experience?
Z. (Look of thunder) – Witnessing people being rude to my staff – my daughters who have put extreme effort in place for all the competitors and participants. I won't tolerate it and have gone to battle a few times over it.
O. You recently added Rakkasah teacher to your long line of credits. Can you share your feelings on performing and teaching at this monumental, international event?
Z. Besides the fact that I nearly ‘pee’d’ myself when Shukriya asked me to teach? I was so obtuse that day when I read her e-mail I didn’t even realize that is what she was asking me. And man, that Rakkasah Stage is intimidating!
O. Oooooh YES!
Z. And even more so as a teacher. The thought of disappointing an audience so important to me, an audience full of fellow dancers, students etc. Well – once my foot hits the stage – I own it but it’s hard getting that foot onto that stage! When your workshops there include teachers as well as beginning students – it’s important in every area not to disappoint – so I worry!
O. I feel you are one of a few pure Egyptian stylists among American dancers. Please explain how you feel this dance style is different?
Z. Well – all too often a dancer is chasing after her music – I feel Egyptian music is created to be loved and caressed. Egyptian music is constantly changing mood – serious, coy, playful etc. so you should play (dance) this music as if you are an instrument – feel the changes in the music – in the singer’s voice.
O. I’ve noticed you seem adept at choosing moving music.
Z. Well, clearly, the music you would choose for the Stage is different than what you choose for other venues. For instance – a performance at a birthday party is all about getting the birthday boy/girl up to dance. At my recent workshop in Miami – I chose music that showcases what I am teaching – ie. graceful arms and hands, body styling. I particularly choose music for a performance after a workshop that displays the skills I taught, because that is what people have come to see.
O. Do you have a piece of music to share that “rocks” your soul?
Z. Ma Schaal, because of its complexity. I could pick a more comfortable familiar piece but I like to feel challenged and this piece of music will provide challenge.
O. Seems like you were created to teach, what do you love about it?
Z. Right now it is especially rewarding as I am breaking some new ground in my area with college accredited classes like my class for the Health and Physical Education department at Clark Community College in Vancouver, Washington. I’m sharing artistic, emotional and physical health with a wide array of students ranging in age from teenagers to sixty. And it’s not solely about the physical dance. It’s about the history and icons of our dance – the cultures it was born too. There is a written exam as well as a performance test.
O. Can they fail this class?
Z. Failure is lack of participation – disrespectful behavior to the class, art and culture. I take them to community venues such as the Wednesday night Middle Eastern Community Dance Party held at IABP and respectful restaurants such as Pashas who host Belly Dance nights. They learn safe and ethical behavior. If they see a style other than my own they would like to study, I provide them with other teacher’s names.
O. Do you have dancers in the international community who are your favorites to watch?
Z. So many I couldn’t begin to relate them all. Dancers like Morocco who is so knowledgeable and you can see what she is feeling as she dances. Suhaila with the outrageous way she always pushes the envelope – carefully – but in a way that has revolutionized the dance. The beautiful Leila Haddad who dances with intelligence and sophistication. The fearless Jamilla Al Wahid who was just 15 years old when I took my first lesson from her. Passionate Suzanna Del Vechio, Dahlia Carella who brought out my first tear and Jim Boz – cocky – no pun intended! (wicked smile)! And my best friend Oberon – because she’s such a spicy wench!
O. O.K. – I’m extremely happy right now! Will you go out on a limb and share some choice musicians with us?
Z. Again - a drop in the ocean – but of course Pangia to whom I feel personally connected to because it’s the most important element, that the dancer and musicians perform with each other and not AT each other. I make it my mission to distract Denise into having fun and laughing and of course Pat has indisputably, one of the most beautiful voices in the business. If Carmine Guida is drumming – I can do something outrageous – and he’ll play along!
Then there is Michael Beach of Bothers of the Baladi. I’ve been blessed to perform with Michael ever since I arrived in the Pacific Northwest 20 years ago. If nothing else – giving him my shoes as I enter the stage – is sure to get me a good show!
Desert Wind – Alan and Andolin are the sweetest people with gentle loving music and just great to work with. Var Dagdevarian – the real ”Dawg” who seriously works with each dancer in a fun, playful way. Harry Saroyan – Ahaaa – the first time I heard Harry sing.
O. Zaina – it’s clear you love this community!
Z. It’s my life partner – my security. It’s always there like a great spouse should be - - - the dance, the people involved in the community are always there! Face it – the car breaks down – the kids are sick – the job is hard. No or little control. In this dance – we decide, the venue – live band or recording – type of costume we wear – we have control, even for these few minutes – it’s VERY powerful.
O. I know that given your schedule of raising a family alone, working, performing, traveling to teach workshops, teaching regular classes and the Double Crown – you’ve been asked this question before – but here for all the curious – why The Belly Dancer Magazine?
Z. Since 1992 I had been writing various articles for Jareeda Magazine as well as writing company newsletters at many of my regular jobs. I did a review of Horatio and Beata’s “Fairy Tale” with Bert Balladine. They called after the review was published and were so very grateful that I understood the story and dance relationship. Everyone was always so kind - I enjoyed writing. Around the time Jareeda was sold to Mezdulene, I was putting out news about a newsletter I was starting called “Mystical Messages”.
After meeting Mezdulene, she offered me a more active role in the articles and reviews in Jareeda – so I decided to write for her and put my own personal newsletter on hold.
Of course, I have my own opinions on how information is shared – so after a few years it became clear to me that I was becoming frustrated and needed to proceed with my own venture. Really – it was my loyalty to Mezdulene and Halima that kept me from going forward sooner. So having much the same experience in print magazines from all over the country that I had as regards dance competitions, I set out eager to do my own thing!
O. How was your concept different?
Z. My first priority and promise was that we would be “on time every time”. My second concern was that we have no more than 50% of the content be advertising. No being over-run with what pays the bills. <giggle> Third – no wailing, whining or name-calling. Focus on education. I wanted our readers to be excited to get their copies.
Little did I know how much work was involved in lay-out, printing, mailing, proofing and marketing! TRUE GRIT is definitely required. I demanded it have the same integrity and class as everything else I’m doing – it had to be up-lifting!
O. As Dr, Phil would say – “How’s that working for you”?
Z. Well – 4 ½ years into the print magazine and I still feel it is a continuous pro-active tool in the education of dancers.
O. But your taking a successful formula and making some giant changes in it right now – why?
Z. Because I heard repeatedly from the dance community – that like me – they are turning to the internet for the bulk of their information. One MUST be willing to change in order to provide the best service possible. I love our pretty print issues – but with all the information out to our readers about these coming changes, I have heard not ONE negative comment – just positive excitement – which tells me I am taking the right step. And it is exciting, because it allows us to share information boundlessly – so more information, keep it around longer and gives us the ability to provide our readers with access to the new AND old issues.
You know I come by this urge to share information honestly. I was born in Phoenix , Arizona, a Native American – Cherokee. About ten years ago, I was in the library, looking for information on my Cherokee heritage when a book fell onto the floor and opened at a page showing the Cherokee Phoenix . I learned that the Cherokee had the first written language with grammatical structure and translation. Also the first published news paper for Native Americans. 
O. You’re known among your friends as the Phoenix.
Z . Egyptians – Phoenicians – Cherokee - strong ties - re-birth – just like me – my life. Between my marriages and divorces, my children, work, my dance journey, my life – I have many deep connections with the re-birth of the Phoenix. And now my magazine is experiencing a re-birth – another phase of its journey.
O. So what is important for people to read that we have not yet shared in this conversation?
Z. Personally – that while I love this Art – my children and grandchildren, family are the most important part of my life. They are my stability and their support continues to be everything to me. As concerns the dance – I would share that the journey cannot be taken alone. It really is not about yourself, it’s about sharing – with respect and gratitude.
