Experiences and Chats with Saida & Mario Kirlis
As written by Said el Amir

Editor’s Note #2:  And for more information about this wonderfully talented dancer, the Dancer to Dancer personal interview done by Oberon with Said is here on iShimmy.com at:  Said el Amir

          Saida and Mario Kirlis

So it Begins:

Friday evening almost 8.30 p.m., lobby of the hotel in Offenbach.

I was ready for the planned diner with Djamila, Matthias (her husband), Sefira from Hungary and the Guests from Argentina. Like always, Djamila and Matthias arrived super punctual and well organized. A friendly looking man - approximately middle of his forties came down the stairs and have been saluted joyfully by her – “Hi Mario!“ – Aha, THAT is Mario Kirlis... THE Mario Kirlis, who is composing this wonderful music and who is famous all over the world and now standing in front of me, throwing a quick view having similarities to one of my elder brothers. Only a few seconds later a small, tanned very trimly hyper long haired lady appeared at the reception desk. Even without any help I was able to identify her as Saida in person. She is also a very nice person without any allures, open-minded and conversational. Afterwards Sefira from Budapest joined the group and hardly one minute later the last two musicians from Argentina, Matias and Gaston, came over. We started our way via studio to the Italian restaurant.

This evening is representative for the whole weekend. It was an easy going, highly informative, friendly, very interesting, educational evening with an incredible specific kind of humor. Like this I perceived the star guest during my total stay in Offenbach.

On the way to the studio I took the chance for refreshing my Spanish language. This opened further doors and the guests were pleased, a little more relaxed and some kind of “more private” but never losing the required distance. Visiting the Orient-Academy Saida, Mario, Gaston and Matias were one more than the other amazed.

“Have you seen how many rooms they have?“, Saida asked Mario.

 “No, not yet. But have you seen the high-tech music devices we may use for our instruments?“

 “There are even showers and a bar over there“.

“Yeah, and everything is so beautiful and stylish“! .. This took some time and hereafter we finally went to the restaurant.

I was shocked! On the way to the restaurant I saw Saida smoking a cigarette. No, I haven’t been shocked by the cigarette as years ago I did smoke too – although, yes perhaps a little bit. But I have been irritated because I remembered all the countless videos of Saida I have seen on youtube, in which it was more than  clearly observable that she has everything but surely no problems with her fitness... how is this possible?

SAIDA

Said: “Saida, how do you keep your fitness, although you are smoking 20 cigarettes a day – as you say“?

Saida laxly:  “I do jogging and teach a lot. But could we enter the location? I am freezing!”

Well, this is understandable, as in Argentina it’s summer: 32°C in the shade – we had clammy cold -3°C.

The waiter arrived quickly and we were able to order swiftly and asked for our order.

Mario:  “Something German, a beer“.

He ordered a beer called “White beer” consisting of yeast and wheat. Matias, the Darbukka player, ordered – as I am a Northern Germany born child - a lager beer. I smirked as I foresaw that this will most probably be too dry. Yes, and that was what happened. He decided to “taste” a White beer next time.

Then our food order.

Mario:  “Something German, a Schnitzel or Sauerkraut.“

Aha, that is the way Germans are still seen. Meals with Sauerkraut in an Italian Restaurant? Consequentially he ordered a Schnitzel.

Said:  “Saida, you told us at the studio that your academy has only one room which is approximately as big as the large one of the Orient-Academy – means about 120m². How do you manage your lessons though“?

Saida:  “We are teaching sequentially. Most of the days from 6pm to 10pm hour wise. Only on Wednesday we offer also some courses in the morning.“

Said:  “And how many pupils do you have in one course – more or less“?

Saida:  “Well, the first year I do have between 80 and 100, in the second year around 60-70 and so on.”

Said:  “Pardon, Saida, I did not mean all in all but in the lesson the day itself”.

Saida:  “Yes, yes, in the evening in each course”.

Yes, exactly as you look now, Djamila and I looked at each other.

Said:  “What do your pupils say? Isn’t this very narrow and tight“?

Saida:  “I do have far more than 700 pupils inscribed at my academy. They all know about this situation and they are used to it. From the beginning they are educated to stand and stay in lines and to change them and to work very disciplined“.

Said:  “700 pupils is a lot. This means a lot of organizational effort and a huge bundle of nerves. Do you have any help“?

Saida:  “Yes, I have two secretaries, 7 assistants for the lessons, Matias for the live drum and a vendor for the bazaar. I could not handle all this on my own“.

Said:  “Did your assistants learn at your school“?

Saida:  “Yes, for me it is important that everybody speaks the same language and is teaching the same contents. This is only possible when you take people from your own school“.

Although it is more than visible that Saida and Mario are not a couple I could not refrain from asking the following question.

Said: “Mario, since when are you partnered with Saida?”

Mario:  “What do you mean by `partnered´? You mean, since when we are working together”?

Said:  “No, no, I meant, since when you are married”.

Mario and Saida like out of one mouth:

“Not at all”!  Total irritation is to be seen on their faces.

Mario: “How do you deduce?“

Said: “A lot of people asked this question in advance. Everywhere on the CDs and DVDs it is written “”Saida & Mario Kirlis””. So it is nevertheless being obvious”.

Both were laughing out loud.

Saida and Mario Kirlis

Mario: “Well, this is also a kind of logical conclusion! No, namely I am married since almost 30 years and do have two children but not with Saida! “

Saida:  “Me, too, I am married, but with a dancer“.

Said:  “Okay, fine, so now we do have cleared this. Good appetite to all of you“!

The next day – after having had an extensive breakfast – we started over to the studio at 9.30am…. I have been surprised about the freshness and relaxation of all of them. Especially when you have in mind that they just arrived a day before — after a 20-hour flight. Even Gaston (Kanoun player), who is punished by an extreme fear of flight had a good night's sleep and looked relaxed.

Instructions to live music. We are not talking about live drummer which more or less everybody has had as experience once. No, we are talking about a whole band playing whole pieces during the lesson. Those who haven’t made this experience yet missed definitely a lot! Amazing, all workshops were accompanied by live music played by Mario Kirlis and his `guys´. In the most positive way this has been a very idiosyncratic experience which caused from goose bumps to tears almost everything a human soul is able to give. With 26 pupils in each course the workshops were quite filled if you are taking the point of view of the Middle Eastern dance scene of Europe. I personally know other dance styles with much more participants in much tighter rooms.  Saida’s instructions were clearly structured and she made changing the lines very often. She dealt with the needs of the students and partly repeated very often the “to be learned” step combinations. Like this everybody was able to follow.

The first choreography has been dashing, included refined changes and therewith wonderful effects. Lucky those, who knew when to have the body weight where. A clear technique in Middle Eastern dance AND a knowledge in ballet or jazz dance are inestimable advantages for Saida’s choreographies. Not only a few of the participants reached their abilities. Masterly Saida handled this situation and adapted immediately the level to the present participants. The frustration was banned and the fun factor high. This showed once more her enormous experience in teaching and flexibility in creating new steps.

During the pause some of the participants asked me about my opinion of the level of the choreography Saida just taught. Most of them thought, it was “very far advanced” or even a “Masterclass”.

Said: “Saida, what kind of level do you set for this choreography?“

Saida: “At my academy this choreography would be taught in the second year. This means intermediate level”.

               Saida and Gaston

So what is the reason for this different estimation?

The question regarding the level brought up other questions.

Said: “Saida, what is for you the most important when you teach“?

Saida:   “In general it is important for me to inform my students about the history, the rhythms and the technique. I missed all this during my education and that is the reason why I told myself to give all this in case I would open a school. Relating to contents I differentiate from level to level:

   “During the fist year the technique has to be set. This is the basic, the fundament for a successful and excellent dancer. Also the history is very important as the students comprehend why they do what. And they learn the first 10 rhythms. All this ends with a final exam and a certificate for the first year. Only with this certificate they may study further on in the second year.

   During the second year things like baladi, cane dance, veil and zills are added. 10 more rhythms are instructed and countless step combinations. Again there is a final exam with certificate.   

   During the third year we teach to dance with 2 canes, 2 veils, 2 zills – no, I am kidding – but well, everything is more intensive than in the second year. 10 further rhythms will be instructed and certainly an exam.

   The fourth year is marked by Raqs Sharqi; working with wings and other accessories and the last 10 important Arabic rhythms for belly dancers. You may guess it already... again an exam.

   The fifth and last year of the education they learn rhythms form Turkey, Lebanon, Morocco, Tunisia etc. and they will be prepared for their final exam.“

Said: “This sounds like a lot of stuff in a relatively short time. How is this to be managed“?

Saida: “The students visit at least 3x a week the instructional lessons and continue one's education by visiting countless workshops and intensive seminars“.

Said: “This concept reminds of a kind of university or at least a high school for dance“.

SAIDA

Saida: “Yes, I clearly want this to be seen like this. In my academy they learn how to dance but also how to teach. With all required modesty those who studied from a-z at my school can honestly hold a candle to other first class Middle Eastern dancers all over the world.“

Said: “So talking about high school, levels and knowledge, I would like to know what you require of a professional dancer“.

Saida: “90% she needs to be persistent and constant in her work. She has to practice, practice, practice, practice. She has to invest into her education: time – a lot of time and money, a lot of regular courses and workshops, too. She needs to be friendly, amiable and for sure neither arrogant nor conceited“.

Time of pause is over and the next workshop begins. Meanwhile we are warming up I am still with the before said and let my thoughts roam to the emotional played music by Mario. Already new questions come to my mind.

In this workshop the students looked much more relaxed. They were now a little more familiar with the teaching and dancing style of Saida and dared also to ask some questions. At the end of the workshop Mario informed us about the used rhythms and the background of the song. Everybody listened carefully as this already has been very informative at the end of the first workshop. Indeed these explanations changed the comprehension for the dance and the music. Very ingenious! This should become part of any lesson. After this workshop there was no more time for talking because everybody was preparing himself for the gala show in the evening. To describe this show would blow up this article. Only this: it was just awesome! Those who haven’t been there really missed something!

The next day revealed more highlights of the seeming never ending repertoire of Saida. But much more I have been interested in what Mario would have to add to the subject `instruction´.

Said:  “Mario, yesterday you said that you enjoyed the show very much. What do you think of a professional dancer need“?

Mario:  “Talent, beauty and technique“

Said: “This is partly thought some kind of very manly, isn’t it?“

Mario:  “Yes, but No. For a good dancer talent is indispensable. Beauty is independent of the gender – men like beautiful women, but women also prefer watching beautiful women dancing. The same for dancers and men. This is not at all to be seen as a judgment but neutral.  Each human being as his own perceive of beauty. And technique is also independent from the gender. Actually, I do not think my statement has been very manly.“

Said: “At the end of each workshop you told the participants with a lot of patience and enormous background knowledge where the music is from, in what kind of period of time it has been composed, who has been the composer and what has changed to nowadays. Whence do you have all your knowledge“?

              SAIDA AND MATIAS

Mario: “I was raised with this music“.

Said: “But you are a native Argentinean, aren’t you?“

Mario: “Yes, I am born in Argentina. My Father, being Greek and a very successful violinist brought as one of the pioneers the Arabic music to Argentina and into my heart. About 10% of the 40 million inhabitants of Argentina are from Syria, Italy and Lebanon. Since I was 7 I remember Greek, Arabic, Armenian and Turkish music. Ever since I studied piano, harmonium, counterpoint, audio perceptive and composition. Nowadays I play the Oud, Kanoun, Saz, keyboard and many more“.

Said: “You are a musician since more than 40 years? Since when do you instruct this“?

Mario:  “I teach since 25 years and with all required modesty I would like to emphasize that I most probably have been the first one ever who introduced Middle Eastern rhythms and structures to the occidental world.“

A proud, though non-arrogant smile glanced on his face.

Said: “And what do you think how long it will take a dancer to internalize all these important knowledge about dance and music“?

Mario: “I can’t and I don’t want to generalize this. In former times it took almost a life time, because sources were hard to find and teachers being able to instruct this couldn’t be found even harder. Nowadays it is much easier. The internet offers endless possibilities and as well occidental as Middle Eastern musicians know about teaching the structures and background knowledge of the Middle Eastern music. Accordingly, it depends decisively on the talent and the enthusiasm about being educated of the student how much time she finally needs for this”.

Said: “I already asked Saida, hat you require of a professional dancer. How do you think about this”?

Mario: “The most important is that she constantly tries hard to know and show the best. She should always look after showing the best possible interpretation of the music. That includes also, that she ought to know what she is doing and which background it has“.

At the end of the last workshop on Sunday both, Saida and Mario said:

“It has been a real pleasure to having get the opportunity to be the first time in Germany. We met so many nice, friendly and warm-hearted people here and we will take this image with us. All over the world people think that Germans are rough, square-headed, without humor and unfriendly. We found the total contrary. Thank you for your cordiality! We would like to thank Djamila for enabled us to share our knowledge and art with you. We voluntarily come back“!

So, what should be said to this? A dignified completion for a grandiose, well organized, very warm-hearted, informative, inspirational and motivating weekend on highest standard with only nice people.